He was speaking of the communion of saints – all of those who lived before us. Chapter 12 is a continuation of 11, where the author praises those who have gone before us, ie, the Saints.
The idea is that since the saints mentioned in chapter 11 all persevered in faith not having received the promises, that they, like the Hebrews (to whom the epistle was written) are witnesses of God’s grace and have also found reasons sufficient enough to persevere in faith. Their testimony should strengthen the reader’s resolve to continue in faith.
Notice this though. After all those people mentioned in chapter 11, 12:3 is the culmination of example.
Another great question.
The cloud of witnesses. A witness is one that has first hand knowledge. We can conclude from this that it is speaking of part of the body( the church). This would include the current saints as well as those that have gone on before us. We are to use those that have gone on before us as examples of what to do and what not to do.
The Jews and (Deut. 10-19) the Christians (Matt. 18:16, 2 Cor. 13:1), and Muslims (Quran) were given the 2 or more witnesses principle. There are many ‘witnesses’ that mention the law of Moses (not Genesis-Malachi), i. e. the law of Moses was the old testament. While the new law is not identical to the old testament (law of Moses) it is very similar (same concept; different grammer).
Dear Friend,
They surround us as a great “cloud of witnesses. ” This does not mean that they are spectators of what goes on, on the earth. Rather they witness to us by their lives of faith and endurance, and set a high standard for us to duplicate.
Just read chapter 11. The hall of faith is right before these verses. Everyone who received Christ before He actually came to die for sin are included in this great cloud of witnesses.
Whenever you see a therefore remember to read what happened just before.
Hmmmm. . . “Cloud of Witnesses”
CLOUD:
G3509
νέφος
nephos
nef’-os
Apparently a primary word; a cloud: – cloud.
WITNESSES:
G3144
μάρτυς
martus
mar’-toos
Of uncertain affinity; a witness (literally [judicially] or figuratively [generally]); by analogy a “martyr”: – martyr, record, witness.
Perhaps he was referring to those who had died under the existing oppression of Christianity – that were now in heaven, watching how they were carrying on.
For us today – it would be all who passed from this world into paradise – and are now witnessing OUR walk with Christ.
Peace.
The “cloud of witnesses”
The Saints. . . . . that we are surrounded by is a great amphitheatre of witnesses to the earthly race, and they actively participate and cheer us (the runners) on, in our race to salvation.
I have pondered on those verses too. In the NLT version it says, “a huge crowd of witnesses. ” I used to think it meant like angels and maybe everyone, angels, demons and anyone who happens to see you.
Personally I think this is the Saints that have gone before but also the angelic host. I think the demonic forces watch as well wanting us to trip up and make a mistake but I think the angels step in to help when they can.
Lovely verses! I love to go to blueletterbible. org when something strikes my fancy in a verse.
I found this by Matthew Henry:
1. Christians have a race to run, a race of service and a race of sufferings, a course of active and passive obedience.
2. This race is set before them; it is marked out unto them, both by the word of God and the examples of the faithful servants of God, that cloud of witnesses with which they are compassed about. It is set out by proper limits and directions; the mark they run to, and the prize they run for, are set before them.
Well first let me say that this is a popular scripture amongst many Christians. Its funny that you point out the phrase “cloud of witnesses”. I do believe that the author is making reference to other believers. What he is doing is including all who name the name of Jesus Christ. Also this passage is talking about how we as Christians should continue to run the race in life. We need to lay aside every weight and every sin that can hinder us in completing all that God has called us to do in this. So he says, let us “run” with endurance or other versions say patience. In this life we will have troubles as Christians. We are to run the race regardless of any issues we face, but we are to do it by having patience and looking to Jesus for the strength to finish. Also the author gives us an example of Jesus dying on the cross. He says, “who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the thrown of God. ” Basically the author is saying that Jesus ran the race, finished it by the death of the cross and was rewarded by sitting at the right hand of God. This is a great passage and it is made clear that we as Christians must finish the race in order to see the prize and obtain it.
One other passage of scripture supports this.
Phillipians 3:14 says
“I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. “
Yes, that is a great passage of Scripture. In all the study that I have done, I have found the following from Matthew Henry’s commentary. I hope it helps.
The persevering obedience of faith in Christ, was the race set before the Hebrews, wherein they must either win the crown of glory, or have everlasting misery for their portion; and it is set before us. By the sin that does so easily beset us, understand that sin to which we are most prone, or to which we are most exposed, from habit, age, or circumstances. This is a most important exhortation; for while a man’s darling sin, be it what it will, remains unsubdued, it will hinder him from running the Christian race, as it takes from him every motive for running, and gives power to every discouragement. When weary and faint in their minds, let them recollect that the holy Jesus suffered, to save them from eternal misery. By stedfastly looking to Jesus, their thoughts would strengthen holy affections, and keep under their carnal desires. Let us then frequently consider him. What are our little trials to his agonies, or even to our deserts? What are they to the sufferings of many others? There is a proneness in believers to grow weary, and to faint under trials and afflictions; this is from the imperfection of grace and the remains of corruption. Christians should not faint under their trials. Though their enemies and persecutors may be instruments to inflict sufferings, yet they are Divine chastisements; their heavenly Father has his hand in all, and his wise end to answer by all. They must not make light of afflictions, and be without feeling under them, for they are the hand and rod of God, and are his rebukes for sin. They must not despond and sink under trials, nor fret and repine, but bear up with faith and patience. God may let others alone in their sins, but he will correct sin in his own children. In this he acts as becomes a father. Our earthly parents sometimes may chasten us, to gratify their passion, rather than to reform our manners. But the Father of our souls never willingly grieves nor afflicts his children. It is always for our profit. Our whole life here is a state of childhood, and imperfect as to spiritual things; therefore we must submit to the discipline of such a state. When we come to a perfect state, we shall be fully reconciled to all God’s chastisement of us now. God’s correction is not condemnation; the chastening may be borne with patience, and greatly promote holiness. Let us then learn to consider the afflictions brought on us by the malice of men, as corrections sent by our wise and gracious Father, for our spiritual good. http://www. steppingstonesshow. com
joshua@steppingstonesshow. com
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November 29th, 2009 at 12:02 pm
He was speaking of the communion of saints – all of those who lived before us. Chapter 12 is a continuation of 11, where the author praises those who have gone before us, ie, the Saints.
November 29th, 2009 at 12:05 pm
The idea is that since the saints mentioned in chapter 11 all persevered in faith not having received the promises, that they, like the Hebrews (to whom the epistle was written) are witnesses of God’s grace and have also found reasons sufficient enough to persevere in faith. Their testimony should strengthen the reader’s resolve to continue in faith.
Notice this though. After all those people mentioned in chapter 11, 12:3 is the culmination of example.
November 29th, 2009 at 1:03 pm
Another great question.
The cloud of witnesses. A witness is one that has first hand knowledge. We can conclude from this that it is speaking of part of the body( the church). This would include the current saints as well as those that have gone on before us. We are to use those that have gone on before us as examples of what to do and what not to do.
November 29th, 2009 at 1:08 pm
The Jews and (Deut. 10-19) the Christians (Matt. 18:16, 2 Cor. 13:1), and Muslims (Quran) were given the 2 or more witnesses principle. There are many ‘witnesses’ that mention the law of Moses (not Genesis-Malachi), i. e. the law of Moses was the old testament. While the new law is not identical to the old testament (law of Moses) it is very similar (same concept; different grammer).
November 29th, 2009 at 1:59 pm
I am suitable, the God word am living and impressing!
And my r̩ponse is & amp; #039; Exactly the same as the marvelous kingdom Рits kingdom in the sky and on Earth& amp; quot;.
It in même time également, which speaks regarding those, which have été sauvés and from those, témoinssauvés. the étaient, went être continuously with its kingdom.
Anyhow they are always our frères and sisters, which are in Christ Jésus entièrement now.
November 29th, 2009 at 2:00 pm
Dear Friend,
They surround us as a great “cloud of witnesses. ” This does not mean that they are spectators of what goes on, on the earth. Rather they witness to us by their lives of faith and endurance, and set a high standard for us to duplicate.
November 29th, 2009 at 2:58 pm
Just read chapter 11. The hall of faith is right before these verses. Everyone who received Christ before He actually came to die for sin are included in this great cloud of witnesses.
Whenever you see a therefore remember to read what happened just before.
November 29th, 2009 at 2:59 pm
Hmmmm. . . “Cloud of Witnesses”
CLOUD:
G3509
νέφος
nephos
nef’-os
Apparently a primary word; a cloud: – cloud.
WITNESSES:
G3144
μάρτυς
martus
mar’-toos
Of uncertain affinity; a witness (literally [judicially] or figuratively [generally]); by analogy a “martyr”: – martyr, record, witness.
Perhaps he was referring to those who had died under the existing oppression of Christianity – that were now in heaven, watching how they were carrying on.
For us today – it would be all who passed from this world into paradise – and are now witnessing OUR walk with Christ.
Peace.
November 29th, 2009 at 3:53 pm
The “cloud of witnesses”
The Saints. . . . . that we are surrounded by is a great amphitheatre of witnesses to the earthly race, and they actively participate and cheer us (the runners) on, in our race to salvation.
November 29th, 2009 at 4:12 pm
I have pondered on those verses too. In the NLT version it says, “a huge crowd of witnesses. ” I used to think it meant like angels and maybe everyone, angels, demons and anyone who happens to see you.
November 29th, 2009 at 4:42 pm
Personally I think this is the Saints that have gone before but also the angelic host. I think the demonic forces watch as well wanting us to trip up and make a mistake but I think the angels step in to help when they can.
November 29th, 2009 at 4:44 pm
Thank you for sharing the verses. They are beautiful.
The cloud of witnesses could mean all believers, both living and in heaven.
November 29th, 2009 at 5:42 pm
believers and heavenly beings.
November 29th, 2009 at 6:09 pm
I believe that you DO love the verses
November 29th, 2009 at 6:36 pm
Lovely verses! I love to go to blueletterbible. org when something strikes my fancy in a verse.
I found this by Matthew Henry:
1. Christians have a race to run, a race of service and a race of sufferings, a course of active and passive obedience.
2. This race is set before them; it is marked out unto them, both by the word of God and the examples of the faithful servants of God, that cloud of witnesses with which they are compassed about. It is set out by proper limits and directions; the mark they run to, and the prize they run for, are set before them.
November 29th, 2009 at 6:41 pm
Well first let me say that this is a popular scripture amongst many Christians. Its funny that you point out the phrase “cloud of witnesses”. I do believe that the author is making reference to other believers. What he is doing is including all who name the name of Jesus Christ. Also this passage is talking about how we as Christians should continue to run the race in life. We need to lay aside every weight and every sin that can hinder us in completing all that God has called us to do in this. So he says, let us “run” with endurance or other versions say patience. In this life we will have troubles as Christians. We are to run the race regardless of any issues we face, but we are to do it by having patience and looking to Jesus for the strength to finish. Also the author gives us an example of Jesus dying on the cross. He says, “who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the thrown of God. ” Basically the author is saying that Jesus ran the race, finished it by the death of the cross and was rewarded by sitting at the right hand of God. This is a great passage and it is made clear that we as Christians must finish the race in order to see the prize and obtain it.
One other passage of scripture supports this.
Phillipians 3:14 says
“I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. “
November 29th, 2009 at 7:38 pm
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November 29th, 2009 at 7:49 pm
Yes, that is a great passage of Scripture. In all the study that I have done, I have found the following from Matthew Henry’s commentary. I hope it helps.
The persevering obedience of faith in Christ, was the race set before the Hebrews, wherein they must either win the crown of glory, or have everlasting misery for their portion; and it is set before us. By the sin that does so easily beset us, understand that sin to which we are most prone, or to which we are most exposed, from habit, age, or circumstances. This is a most important exhortation; for while a man’s darling sin, be it what it will, remains unsubdued, it will hinder him from running the Christian race, as it takes from him every motive for running, and gives power to every discouragement. When weary and faint in their minds, let them recollect that the holy Jesus suffered, to save them from eternal misery. By stedfastly looking to Jesus, their thoughts would strengthen holy affections, and keep under their carnal desires. Let us then frequently consider him. What are our little trials to his agonies, or even to our deserts? What are they to the sufferings of many others? There is a proneness in believers to grow weary, and to faint under trials and afflictions; this is from the imperfection of grace and the remains of corruption. Christians should not faint under their trials. Though their enemies and persecutors may be instruments to inflict sufferings, yet they are Divine chastisements; their heavenly Father has his hand in all, and his wise end to answer by all. They must not make light of afflictions, and be without feeling under them, for they are the hand and rod of God, and are his rebukes for sin. They must not despond and sink under trials, nor fret and repine, but bear up with faith and patience. God may let others alone in their sins, but he will correct sin in his own children. In this he acts as becomes a father. Our earthly parents sometimes may chasten us, to gratify their passion, rather than to reform our manners. But the Father of our souls never willingly grieves nor afflicts his children. It is always for our profit. Our whole life here is a state of childhood, and imperfect as to spiritual things; therefore we must submit to the discipline of such a state. When we come to a perfect state, we shall be fully reconciled to all God’s chastisement of us now. God’s correction is not condemnation; the chastening may be borne with patience, and greatly promote holiness. Let us then learn to consider the afflictions brought on us by the malice of men, as corrections sent by our wise and gracious Father, for our spiritual good.
http://www. steppingstonesshow. com
joshua@steppingstonesshow. com